Awesome manz, this whole facebook seminar, I actually enjoyed it. Some of the presentation styles are rather unique like Joshua's video and most of them presents some really interesting points admist laughter. Rumour has it that Henry wants to bring someone to bed tonight is so going to be stuck in my head for quite a while. I rather like the pace of the whole seminar presentation, 7 mins really does have it credits, it makes presentation more or less concise and the general flow is rather nice. That aside, it's my time to start to evaluation on pillow fight.
Review
Pillow Fight - just when was the last time I actually have a pillow fight, perhaps when i was around 8 with my sister? I still hold those fold memories close and loved how we use to just whack each other with pillows and my favourite: bolster. The trill was there and it just feels nice to let go and literally whack! That was years ago, actually I can say decade ago. It really does bring back fond memories. Nowadays, as I observe that while I still find enjoyment and fun in other activities, I miss the child-like trill and fun in letting everything go and just do something silly just for the fun of it. It’s been a long time. That was what I thought of when I registered the words pillow fight. It was a representation of letting oneself go and have fun. It represents childhood and something, just pure of us.I believe that that's what the app's trying to achieve and bring across so that people can still put aside time for these small pleasures (though i do admit the clicking of the buttons can be a rather waste of time). I went to look at some of the post and it warms my heart to see stuff like this:
This pillow fight thing really does have its appeal. One of the points I still remember from the seminar more than 24 hours ago is that it is free, easy to use(even grandmas can use them) and though it's similar to super poke, it differs since it's competitive. I shan't go into those aspects as I'm sure you know those factors as it is. I guess the more important learning point in this is how does those features draws players in. As a matter of fact, pillow fight, first impression before this seminar was that it's similar to superpoke, just that the icon's a little different and it's competitive. when I come out of it, i still see roughly the same things but perhaps when i step one step back and review it again, i can perhaps, pick out why it succeeded.
It's free. I have nothing to say over this, it's in my impression that apps on fb are mostly free, even though super popular ones. Hence, I am still rather puzzled over the emphasis that it's free. On the flip side, this brings me to a point that i still strongly remember since it disturbs me a bit and when I went to the app it's so blatantly staring at my face. It's rather disturbing. Multiple rather inappropriate advertisement. Like that:
Im a 19 going to 20 lady and I'm highly disturbed by that. I believe the app is directly at all age groups, for friends and family, children, adults, grandmas.. To see similar contents with different pictures, no it's not even pictures, it's moving clips. it's rather disturbing i admit. It makes me wonder, are they that desperate for money to have those plastered all over the app? It just makes me wonder, are you doing the app for money or for the app, so that others can enjoy it. It's rather sad to see such a, how to call it, purely fun and innocent intention app to have these kinda advertisements all over. Though i do understand that it's nice to earn some money out of it, i personally do recommend to clean it up a little, at least put it at reasonable place, not in between your app and perhaps, spend a little more thought and time into selecting the appropriate types of advertisement. As the group mentioned, perhpas pillow advertisement may seem not as out of place and definitely decent.
Moving back to track, it's easy to use and also have the element of competitiveness in this as compared to superpoke, just like how it's counterpart in reality works. easy to use. really, if even grandmas can use them, i must say they're rather simple to use and that's the draw points. The learning curve is smooth, anyone can play, even your grandmothers. This pulls in the family factor and also the fact that adults can have virtual pillow fights though they may be a little on the old side to really play them. easy to use really do demolish the barrier of entry and attracts people into the game. A point i'd make sure to always keep in mind for our apps, to make it simple, easy to understand or like fameleauge, my seminar group's app, very elaborate and fanciful but it's sooooo complex after dunno how many days i still dun really quite comprehend how it works. If a group that's suppose to study it thinks like that, what about those players, i doubt they'd last 2 mins. One of the major drawpoints of pillow fight is its simplicity in concept and of course, you get to pillow fight with your friends and also your family - it's been a long time since i last whacked my sis with a pillow hmmm.... back to point.
competitiveness, which human doesn't have, though some a small degree but they still do have competitiveness. This creates a stickyness for the game and encourages players to come back. A rather smart move, esp if you're in a "serious" pillow fight and aboslutely won't want to lose. This works rather nicely. Though playing on the competitiveness part, the app can actually use some extra ideas that adds the fun elements. For example, certain features such as pillow enhancer can be added during the match using the credits or coins in this case to perhaps, shorten opponents' "reaction time" or lengthen yours. Not a complusory feature but do help enhance the game and make more interesting. Such brings me back to this observation, I don't really see much fundamental changes or enhancement for the app. Well, for my group, as im sure for others in 3216, the app's like our baby and we'll nurture it. We've spend a lot of effort, sleepless nights in the basement to bring our apps to life, for me, i'd always seek on ways to improve it. Improvement and enhancement, a VERY important element i believe in making an app not only successfull in the short term but also the long term is to literally keep it on its toes. Even Caleb's improving his farm wars~~
Talking about improvements, i see that pillow fights' updates mainly on the type of pillow you can throw. You've seen the pictures where there're like 50 odd page tabs of pillows, each only have 6 pillows. I think the really bad part of it is that some people'd get tired of looking through all the tabs, they stop at around 10 or so and worse thing of all, there's no indicator on which tab you are, good luck to those who forgot which ones they do click. While i think it's nice to have so many variety and introduce some level concepts where some pillow's still lock, a better presentation could have been imployed like, more specific tags, or perhaps a serach bar? Though i do believe that the picture quality of the pillow do have to improve and more though spent on this because some pillows are really just any random picture anyone can paste.
This one actually looks like those game models out there
and this is firstly, out of place due to the different template but oso it's rather obvious that's it's a pasted picture from somewhere else
While i like the concept and idea and considering that this app is successfull, i do believe that more effort can be spent on this app. Im not sure if you can really see it but through these small stuff like this and those spam advertisement that can be a little inapporpriate at times,makes one feel that this app is not really that much cared for,
Though talking about new pillows and stuff, i find this concept rather interesting and a little sad that pillow fight didn't really exploit it. the personalisation of pillows. Flipping through numerious pillows, i realise that a lot of those pillows are basically a background standard black pillow overlapped with a picture on top of that and viola, a new pillow~.This can prove to be a rather strong feature that pillow fight can exploit. I find this to be very true:
You can send a message without saying anything. In fact pillow fight do have these alr like seasons greetings, help raise awareness for certain issues like the given examples:
Notice the pillow's the same just that the picture that overlayed it is different? I believe this is a rather cool idea if you can expand it to allow user the power to customise. I believe this can be a huge attraction point if people can have a certain amount of control, such as over how your pillows looks like. You can have a few different pillow base and with players adding their own pictures, there'd be so much more pillows. I realise that player'd like control over these kinda stuff and customisation allows them that. Most importantly, people can pass messages through this, it makes it more meaningful rather then just a "waste of time" as some said. I believe this can be implemented in my group's app, in fact, it's already designed to do so but we're looking at ways how this can really help enhance while maintaining a balance of control between players and developers.
and oh woah, look at that, that's a rather long entry with my pictures alr so without further ado, i'd like to point out certain points that aren't exactly favourable in this application and while i learn from it, hopefully to not repeat those mistakes in my app. Pop ups.
This is very true. I went to the application myself and basically, if you want to throw a pillow, this infinite loop appears, and trust me, the infinite word is used correctly.
The don't Allow button is a fake trap, it's just go from 1 of 3 to 2 of 3 to 3 of 3 and back to 1 of 3 and the process goes over and over again in an infinite loop. I'm not sure if this's a bug, i hope it is. Because if it's not, i think it's rather irritiating. Not only irritating but you aren't really respecting user's privacy and decisions. Just because of this, I've not throwed a pillow and I don't think i'd be throwing one anytime soon. This loop is a rather serious problem and if it's a bug, i do hope it can be removed soon and i seek to make sure that such things won't happen to my app. It repulses users and can be a huge drawback from the game. My own seminar app proves it, I hate it, the pop up and spam invites, Cedric hates it, John Lew(his review on it) hates it too and I'm sure many others as well. Though certain pop ups are necessary, it have a huge potential at irritating people through it so i'd be caution at using it. One thing I don't mind about popups in farmville though i still don't really like it is that their pop up window are rather special, the first one anyway, before moving on to the default facebook ones. It can soften the edges a little and is definitely something that i can use in my app.
With all those said, i believe pillow fight do have a potential to do even better. Cleaning up with the advertisements, pop ups, add in a customisable feature, attack or defense bonuses e.t.c. are just ways to improve them. I guess, back to the foundamentals, it's there for entertainment, to let people have fun, involve friends and family, play with them and engage them through simple means that everyone have real life experience in, or at least know about it.
I've learnt a lot, not only from pillow fights but from the other applications presented in the seminar as well as other applications such as farmville (and here i thought someone would critique on it), farm wars, mafia wars and its variant. Truth to be told, a lotta features(those that we think make those app great) are picked from all over the place to complement our game. Look around, research (i mean comon, laurence played mafia war just for this app lol, LAURENCE PLAYED MAFIA WARS for a few days!!!) learn from them, adapt and innovate. We all start out as babies and i think what we do best is to learn from observing. I've learnt a lot from this and have thought of various stuff to make sure my app'll be better, have you?
"Jon" Lew, I think :D I'm trying to debunk a myth that I have terrible spelling.
ReplyDeleteYup, one thing I realized about "Pillow Fight" is that at the mere mention of it's name, many people actually think back to their childhood. It's nostalgic and catches your attention/ interest - and that's really the first step to getting someone to use your app :)
When reviewing this app, I too thought it'd be cool if they'd provide customizable pillows! Only I was wondering how they'd store all the images, especially if people abuse it, so I didn't think that would be such a cool improvement to mention. I think the first thing they need to do, before anything else is to clean up the interface and those annoying Zoosk ads :P And the need for e-mail verification. They have a ton of bad reviews for that which you may not see now unless you go to the really old reviews. This is b/c Pillow Fight's developer is smart :) They have competitions sometimes where fans have to give positive reviews in order to be considered for a prize ;P
@Shannon: i heard a rumour you cant spell soulmate :P
ReplyDeleteanyway, i don't think its enough to just get attention. after attention, what are you going to do with that attention? that's a similar question i asked laurance. how do you think you could exploit the attention you've generated? otherwise, its really a big waste :(
(i have no answer btw...)
@Shannon:
ReplyDeleteOnly I was wondering how they'd store all the images, especially if people abuse it, so I didn't think that would be such a cool improvement to mention.
Yes there is a certain backend complications thing there. Though the idea is rather enticing and after reading your comment it trigger some concern in me over this "customisation" problem. My concern is that certain images post or customised may be inappropriate and i know there's quite a number of people out there that will display inappropriate stuff which can be disturbing. So far, the solution I can see is to adopt devianart structure where one can report abuse or censor their pictures.
And right, the point you point out can be a problem. I'm a designer so I'm not really sure about these kinda backend issues but I think a solution would be to have routine polls or "popularity" poll to see which pillows get to stay. This will make sure that things don't get dull and the pillow tabs won't be like 80++
With that said, it has great potential though it'd be nice if we don't have to go to all the way to the application page just to play it. I guess if it may be nicer if part of the app like the return throw at the profile page itself. It makes it more convenient~~
@shannon and carolyn: I think the name itself is intriguing. Having the word "pillow" (something that brings to mind "softness", "comfort" and "pleasure") before "Fight" softens the intense violence and aggression the the latter connotes. This is a commonality that i've noticed in the names of some successful applications {e.g. Super-Poke, MouseHunt, Farm-Wars)
ReplyDeleteSo in my opinion what makes is it an application that is capable of attracting millions of users is because of the following:
1)The name attracts users to find out more about the application.
2)"people's unexplainable passion for games that allow them to gain experience, level up and fight people" {quote JiWei :P}
3) The little time and effort that you need to spend on the application.
4) The frivolous nature of the application. (it serves ABSOLUTELY NO practical purpose.)
Jon, I meant it was the first step. You need attention before all else. You can have the most awesome app, but if it commands no attention, doesn't get noticed, then it's everyone's loss because of such a seemingly small issue. Ofc, once you get attention, you must be able to sustain it. That's a duh :P
ReplyDeleteAnd who told you I can't spell soulmate?
Haha, Carolyn, perhaps they can have the pillows working on the "Threadless" idea. People submit designs for scoring (but get them screen for suitability first) and the best turn into pillows that can be thrown, and are at the same time produced to be sold on the app :)
@jon:
ReplyDeletehmmm.... nice perspective, what to do with the crowd once we've got hold them. Interesting point. I guess one major and obvious point is to keep them occupied. For Pillow Fight, i believe a structure can be further built on its user base. Network, Connections, these are all very important aspects esp if you want go big. Perhaps guilds structure could be introduce and bring stuff up a notch. The prime purpose perhaps would be to provide entertainment. But essentially, it's what message the developers want to bring across or what they want to achieve. Money? get players addicted? lessons? it depends.
However, with our group, we have a clear goal in mind, financial literacy. We hope to share several financial tips and as time progresses, we'd add in new features that higher level players can unlock so that it gets more interesting for them while they learn more complex stuff. The real world market is so complex that we can economists have spent endless time trying to unravel it. It's in our goal to steadily introduce such concepts and enhance the game while making sure the learning curve isn't unreasonably steep.
Personally, I don't think the infi loop is a bug, tis just something to annoy the user into allowing all the permissions.
ReplyDeleteFrom what i can see, the method of sales is a very crude 'shove it into your face type of thing', and shouldn't be what we aim to be building.
@carol: I don't think having a return throw will help, since advertisers decide where to advertise through page views and time spent, it is imperative for apps like these to ensure users visit the application as often as possible.
I also think that the UI clampered with advertisements are not just pure bad UI, they are designed so that there's a fair chance from users to actually misclick on some of them while navigating the page.
As for the dating adverts, I feel its really an economic decision, like if zoosk pays me more than any other company to host their apps, I'd do that too. Its just that pillow fight is probably not the best place to do it.
By the way this is orry.
ReplyDeleteThanks Carolyn for the compliment on our video. I think the the significant winning feature of Pillow Fight is the expiry-date-to-throw-a-pillow-back feature. That makes the user wants to throw something back @ their friends who've thrown them something.
ReplyDeleteAs for customizable pillow. Anyone wants to try their hands on creating a pillow-fight clone that allows user to customise their pillows(or some other throwable stuff)? Maybe we can even out-beat pillow fight! Ha.
Two girls evaluating Pillow Fights both mentioned about their childhood memories and all the happiness of pillow fights with sisters. which..I never experienced when I was 8 as I'm the only child :(
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this blog, I somehow can understand why people like to "waste" their time playing pillow fights :)
I agree on that they'd better categorize pillows and provide search bar for selecting pillows otherwise I will just random click those numbers and see if I can find pillows I like. Actually they do have grouping of pillows except that the grouping types are abit random~~
For the customization idea, I was thinking maybe they can try to use players' photos in their fb albums :) Only the photo owner and his friends can use the customized pillow. as for developers, if they find some pillows really interesting, they can ask players for permission to make the pillows available for all?
-xialin
I probably have had a deprived childhood considering how the name Pillow Fight doesn't evoke any nostalgic feelings in me ):
ReplyDeleteThat said, I like the idea of a tie up with existing pillow companies to market their products on the application, kind of like an Amazon referral link. For example, this site sells cute (IMO) pillows - http://mysuitestuff.com/
I think Xialin's idea of customisable pillows is pretty interesting. Perhaps if Pillow Fight can sufficiently build up their brand and outsource manufacturing, they'll be able to sell actual customised pillows with users' profile pictures (one on each side) attached with the Pillow Fight brand.
@Ji Wei:
ReplyDeleteTrue, Pillow fight is something that every knows and the name itself can trigger interest, which is a very important first step into geting your application known. However, I believe that while that helps to gather people(those that looks through the list of applications), a very important aspect of expanding your user base is by word of mouth. In other words, get current users to have the incentive to get their friends to join. This will form a chain that won't stop and your user base just gets larger and larger:)
While I do agree on your points of how an application can be successful and how it generally applies to most application, I do have to point out that there are also a handfull of cases where the application triggers your thinking skills, and challenges you interllectually to an extent. Those applications are attractive in their own rights and are not necessary of frivolous nature. There are several games that trains you interllectually out there and while they are not as popular as some other applications(since some people dun like to assert brain power) they do have their loyal user base. I personally do love these kinda of game in contrast to those games that require only mindless clicking. (acutally, mafia wars has very intricately weave in aspects of investing into their property market and to actually get the best deal, you do have to think through all the costs and cash flow e.t.c. Rather interesting but i guess most don't really do the math anyway). Btw, nice of you to point out the name factor as well, never thought of it that way~~
@Carolyn
ReplyDeleteBy the way, do you intend to sell your Gentoo application to http://projectmoolah.com/? Haha. There's an exit strategy right there.
exit strategy??? ohh i've heard of moolah, frankly speaking, I'm not too fond of them. They just "talk big" and i've not seen anything concrete from them. As i said, all talk but no action. To be honest, I think their erm, marketing style is definitely lacking and in some way offending. They claim to have secret sauce to potentially disrupt the way financial education is taught in the world. A little or rather very arrogant if you ask me and face it, they're staking a VERY huge claim but I do not see an ounce of action nor result from them. While I do believe that we can influence and perhaps improve the financial education system in our own small ways and slowly work our way up(starting from ourselves). Claiming to be able to disrupt the current financial education is rather absurd. The biggest problem I see in the current situation is that financial literacy is not incorporated in our education system and majority, especially those that need them do not go for these financial education.
ReplyDeleteI must point out the fact that they are young Silicon Valley start-up and I while Im not sure if they are or are not super financially literate, I can definitely say they lack the experience. They aren't successfully rich people speaking from experience and I doubt they've done much investments or the likes of those or else they'd be rich and if they really want to improve such stuff, would have been writing books, inventing games and what not already like Mr Robert T. Kiyosaki and Mr Donald J.Trump. In short, while I like their cause, I do not appreciate how they go (or the lack of action) about it and definitely do not like the way they work or rather not work. If our group really succeeded and make it big after much hard work, I don't really think we'd just hand over our project to a bunch of people that are just talk and no action. Afterall, we did come up with concrete stuff and they, after such claims and yet after such a long time have not came up with something. We might as well come up with our own company, actually, we're thinking about it, Laurence seeing how it goes and we've managed to get a quite a few people to help and support us~~
That aside, I think for now it's best if we get the application going and steady, make sure we have a steady, loyal and expanding user base. After all, basics and foundations are very important if you want to expand the applications :)
Thanks for the mention and interest though, we've sourced out our "competition" and came across Moolah alr >w< Can't say we're really impressed by them..ahahah
@ Orry:
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think the infinite loop might have been a deliberate feature. However, if that is so, I really do think that it is a rather serious design flaw of the game. Think of this, there're people like me who didn't like it(especially if it's me giving them free reign to spam my friends and my wall) and keep clicking Don't Allow for all three permissons. After the first few loops, we'd have known that it'd not work. Since it won't work and we can't play this application, we won't ever come back again and it'd be blacklisted by us. That alone would have driven away a lot of users that are willing to try out your application. I don't think that is a very positive sign. As you say, it's rather annoying. It may or may not be able to get the user into allowing the permissions (esp when it's their first time playing) but it'd definitely leave a rather bad impression. And i agree, it's rather crude.
I also think that the UI clampered with advertisements are not just pure bad UI, they are designed so that there's a fair chance from users to actually misclick on some of them while navigating the page.
While, I do see the logic behind your explanation but i still think that it's design flaw. Think about it this way, if your application is soooo cluttered with advertisements, you have a hard time finding where are the actual applcation interface, firstly, it's hard to use and secondly it's rather irritating. While you do gain points with the advertisers and in return money, you also drive away users or at least made a bad impression. If it gets bad and users start to dislike your application due to its messiness(advertisements and your own design of the application might not go hand in hand, imagine if i have a date advertisement between every post or paragraphs of post.. shudders, pillow fight's something like that) and difficulty to use, they might just quit the game, again, not desirable. While I do not mean to say that they cannot have advertisements, I would suggest that they organise them in a better and much more neater way.
Your point about profitable advertisement is true and that pillow fight is not the best place to do it. You usually get money from advertisements by the amount of people that uses or visit your site/applications and perhaps the number of clicks on the advertisement. I believe that the advertisements and the application MUST go hand in hand. Even if you have a well paying advertisement(of say mature content targeted at the adults) on your application (that perhaps is targeted at the general population, more towards kids and teens). If your users get repulsed by it and leave you, your user base shrink, the money from the advertisements gets less and it just gets worse since once people leave, they will hardly come back, ever. I guess the best solution is to compromise, get the best deal of advertisement you can out there that either complements your application/website(users are more likely to click them. Imagine say, OneManga advertisement on say forum for manga/anime, people are more likely to click on it seeing as it's common interest) or is targeted at your target audience. at least this way, there won't be a clash and everyone's happy.
@Joshua
ReplyDeleteYup, i agree to your point, the expiry-date-to-throw-a-pillow-back feature is definitely a winning point for Pillow Fight. It creates the stickiness to the game >w<
Mwahaha, never thought of pillow fight clone though, nice idea~~ and you're right, it's virtual, you don't have to restrict the fun to just throw pillows though it might be a little erm... concerning if you allow them to throw anything. They can be throwing knives and you know how potent the influence of games and internet is. If you're not careful, your niece might be there the next day throwing a vase or knife at your head..mwahhahahahaha im evil >w< but very interesting concept that pillow fight can definitely expand on~
@xialin:
ReplyDeleteawwwwww don't worry, if you want a pillow fight, I'm all for it >w< and i think this just proves a valid point, to Ji Wei's comment that naming's very important. Though you've never played pillow fight, you still know about it, which i suppose is a big win thing with pillow fight since EVERYONE knows about it whether they played it or not. That's a big plus points :)
Haha, i agree, their catergorisation is like non-existent one lolz. Even with it, some tabs can be like only like 3 pages of pillows while others have like 40+ pages. I'd suggest tagging the pillows so that you can allow a search function. It might be prove to be much convenient:)
You're ideas are very interesting too, to pull the player's pictures, and only those really intersting ones get to have a chance to see the world. In this case, even if everyone have multiple personalised pillows, they aren't spamed on the actual application page!! I wonder the back end issues though, perhaps each player can only store a fixed number of customised pillows, the rest is only on a one time basis? Perhaps some programmers can tell us the complications behind this since it's a really sweet idea~~
@Kah Hong:
ReplyDeleteI think Xialin's idea of customisable pillows is pretty interesting. Perhaps if Pillow Fight can sufficiently build up their brand and outsource manufacturing, they'll be able to sell actual customised pillows with users' profile pictures (one on each side) attached with the Pillow Fight brand.
Yup, cool idea, like those plushy toys they sell, you'd be surprised if it goes big, how many people would buy. In fact i think it was mentioned during the seminar. Then again, customisable pillows are already available unless they can come up with a very unique design or brand of pillows to be manufactored. Then again, it is very easy for producers to imitate them. Look at how many anime/manga/movie pillows are out there:) Cool idea though >w<
Actually the infinite loop was from a tutorial code in facebook wiki.. I forgot which one.
ReplyDeleteThe sample code they gave was something like while(!abcxyz) {
}
therefore, I believe if people just copy and paste the code, it would end up in an infinite loop.. Anyway, most of the people that add these apps will just click allow.. Only troublesome folks like us will click don't allow.. Cos if you don't allow, you cannot actually play the game!
- Hong Jun
@Hong Jun:
ReplyDeleteTrue, haha, troublesome folks like us, you'd be surprise how many there are out there, there're a few reviews targeted just that that >w< but oh well, majorithy of the people do just click allow allow allow without evr hardly read the what they ask for..ahhaaha
There are so many kinds of elements to attract users. Let people to recall their childhood is one of them.
ReplyDeleteI believe in this game, child-like fun is the one of the major selling points. This makes this game beautiful. But a game can't only be beautiful, it should be fun.
When we are children, we play real pillow fights with our brothers and sisters, friends and even parents. What we need is not just tossing pillows here and there, but to interact with people. So I think in this app, it should add more interactions like *laughing* or *shouting* actions. It can also add more roles in one game, like parents who can blame children not going to bed,the warden of a student residence who can put off the light.
I think the more abundant, pillow fight can be more attractive.